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Thursday, August 24, 2006

Kifaya: Kifaya!!!

Moved on! Check TheCairoCalls

Let me first say that I couldn't agree more with Kifaya and its proponents on the founding principles of the movement: uniting all the different Egyptian forces in a bid to put an end to this regime and its monopoly of power. Fair enough.
But this movement had repeatedly shown that they, like the forces they oppose, are suffering from an extreme case of political bankruptcy. Rather than focusing its efforts on this one (gigantic) undertaking, they're being repeatedly sidetracked into other topics (boycotting ART for encoding world cup games for example!) which shows both a severe miscoordination and leadership absence on one hand, and a sophomoric craving to tickle people's emotions on the other.
Of course, the ready answer to those questions is always: it's all connected. Well...no, it's not, and even if it was, why divert people attention, cause more rifts between supporters, and cast a doubt on your political seriousness?. That's of course unless Kifaya thinks that all Egyptians have one opinion on everything. At which case, they will be no better than the current government...wala aeh?
The latest Kifaya fiasco is this. They're petitioning for the cancellation of the Camp David Peace Treaty. These people are just dying for public support, aren't they?
But even if we tried to look at their proposal in a rational way, I find no grounds whatsoever to support it. I know that it is a common past time for Egyptian "intellectuals" to speak how this treaty is unjust to Egypt, how it is destroying the country, and how it is all in Israel's favor (read the comments on Kifaya statements to get an idea). Strangely enough that's the same as what these people think. But...oh...they're saying that it's all in Egypt's favor and that Israel is the bigger loser...what do you know, those devious Jews! (side note: they are also saying that 1973 was a big blow to Israel...I hate to admit it, but some Israelis are more fair than our Arab "brothers").
The real problem I see is that people don't read. We seem to have a natural aversion to this basic skill. Nobody who is attacking it, had read the treaty.
The terms of the treaty are pretty straightforward about the withdrawal of the Israeli troops from Sinai. Yeah, it places some limitations on the numbers of Egyptian troops in Sinai, AND Israeli troops on the other side of the border. Plus, contrary to common belief (among supporters and opponents), the Egyptian armed forces is not denied access to the whole of Sinai, but rather the strip of land adjacent to the borders, and even this changed recently, by allowing border guards to control the borders after Israeli "withdrawal" from Gaza. And even if some of these limitations seem too much for some people, let me just tell you: there is nothing like a free launch. We screwed up in 1967, and that's the price we had to pay. Thank God we had brave people who were able to turn things around in 1973, and force Israel to sign this withdrawal treaty, because that's what is this really is. All the niceties in this treaty (political, economic, and cultural relations) are including in such a non-binding language, that it could be practically saying "it would be nice to have...". Well, it would be nice, but we're free to do whatever we want.
Of course some people respond by saying such things as "this treaty allows Israel to shoot our border guards every couple of days". What does the treaty has to do with this?!? The fact that we're turning into a mosquito country is the real reason. Let me here emphasize that the fact that I think the treaty is OK, doesn't mean that I think that we're handling ourselves well with Israel. In fact there is nothing in the treaty that says we shouldn't respond to such a violations like shooting at our border troops (and FYI: we do respond!). There is nothing which says that we shouldn't have any sort of sanctions against Israel if they're acting in a way which is harming our national interests, or is barbaric against another Arab country. The treaty has a clause against trade sanctions? so what? The GATT has that, and the US do it all the time.
What we lack is an empowered system that can stand up for the interests of its people, and its allies. Treaty, or no treaty.
And Kifaya: grow up!

Treaty text: Egyptian Ministry of Foreign Affairs
Treaty text: Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs

Moved on!

14 Comments:

blessingati 3alal bost.

One point though about the Egyptian soldiers (and the actions we should take in response aside), those were shot by mistake for Palestinian infiltrators. But the Egyptians shot by Palestinian "infiltrators" deliberately and on several occasions (I've lost count), and in our land, are effectively erased from their collective memory. They didn't even talk about it...how are they supposed to remember it?

By Anonymous Anonymous, at August 24, 2006 9:45 PM  

ooops, signed by me, Seneferu:)

By Anonymous Anonymous, at August 24, 2006 9:46 PM  

Did Kifaya really call for boycotting ART because it encoded the World Cup Matches?
Never heard that... maybe because of the cheering and honking in the street.

By Blogger Elijah Zarwan, at August 24, 2006 11:49 PM  

Wow, reading this post of yours had me confused. For a second there i thought i was reading sandmonkey or BP. Nice to see you've joined the ranks of the hypocrites.

Zahra

By Anonymous Anonymous, at August 25, 2006 2:57 AM  

hypocrites?...wow!...slow down a bit!
Having an opinion, which is different from urs doesnt constitute hypocrisy....
I supported Hezbollah in Lebanon (read my previous posts), bas the situation here is different...but, even so, I called at the end of this post (if u did read it) for Egypt to have sanctions against Israel because of what is doing in Lebanon and Palestine if we think thats the appropriate way....all I am saying is that what is stopping us is that we have a weak system that can't stand up for the rights of its citizens and allays....bas not because of the treaty....
focusing on the treaty now is like execusing our government for its weak response!! The treaty is just a piece of paper, and the binding parts for us has nothing to do of whether we can take positions against Israel!!!!!!
READ ABOOS EDEKOM!

By Blogger Tomanbay, at August 25, 2006 4:24 PM  

I wasn't calling you a hypocrite because you have an opinion that is different to mine. I'm sure when you think someone's opinions are hypocritical it's not usually because they differ from yours. So, no need to patronize. Back to your post, which i did read of course otherwise why would i comment or think you're a hypocrite, this is the part i mainly have a problem understanding:
"Nobody who is attacking it, had read the treaty." Well i'm sure all Egyptians should bow down to you and be eternally grateful that your highness bothered to actually read it and are advising them to do the same!!!!!
"The terms of the treaty are pretty straightforward about the withdrawal of the Israeli troops from Sinai." No comment needed here, your blog, your opinion.
Now back to lala land
"Yeah, it places some limitations on the numbers of Egyptian troops in Sinai, AND Israeli troops on the other side of the border. Plus, contrary to common belief (among supporters and opponents), the Egyptian armed forces is not denied access to the whole of Sinai, but rather the strip of land adjacent to the borders, and even this changed recently, by allowing border guards to control the borders after Israeli "withdrawal" from Gaza. And even if some of these limitations seem too much for some people," Oh really, why is that? "let me just tell you:" Yes, please do...
"there is nothing like a free launch." Wow, this is genius! And there i was thinking it was more complicated than that.
"We screwed up in 1967, and that's the price we had to pay. Thank God we had brave people who were able to turn things around in 1973, and force Israel to sign this withdrawal treaty, because that's what is this really is. All the niceties in this treaty (political, economic, and cultural relations) are including in such a non-binding language, that it could be practically saying "it would be nice to have...". Well, it would be nice, but we're free to do whatever we want.
Of course some people respond by saying such things as "this treaty allows Israel to shoot our border guards every couple of days". What does the treaty has to do with this?!? The fact that we're turning into a mosquito country is the real reason. Let me here emphasize that the fact that I think the treaty is OK, doesn't mean that I think that we're handling ourselves well with Israel. In fact there is nothing in the treaty that says we shouldn't respond to such a violations like shooting at our border troops (and FYI: we do respond!). " How the hell do "we" "respond"?!?!
"What we lack is an empowered system that can stand up for the interests of its people, and its allies." I completely agree.
"Treaty, or no treaty." I think the cancellation of the treaty crossed people's minds when lebanon was getting erased from this planet and its people were getting massacred, which raised questions about the validity of such a treaty.
"And Kifaya: grow up!" Well Kefaya is a concept and a great one at that, is it a political party or a hezb? Don't get me wrong i'm not a kefaya advocate but it's important to bear in mind that it's just there to bring publicity to causes that matter to the Egyptian public.
By the way, i always read your blog, the overlooking of some facts in this post just shocked me that's all. No offence intended.
Zahra

By Anonymous Anonymous, at August 28, 2006 10:29 PM  

None taken...but really, aside from your conviction that I am patronizing you, and the Egyptians (i dont know where u got that from!) I didnt get how am I a hypocrite bardo!!
Really...you think that Kifaya is a great concept? me 2! read my later post to know why exactly I'm bothered with them...
Other than that, I cant really find any problem that u have with the post (except ur tendency to quote unbelieviably long quotes!!)

so plz dont take accusations like hypocrisy lightly!

By Blogger Tomanbay, at August 30, 2006 9:12 AM  

Oof, bardo you have to patronize, it's as if you can't validate your own points so you resort to being pompous instead. My "unbelievably" long quotes are from your "unbelievably" long post. I used these loooong quotes to illustrate the alternate universe quality of whate you were saying. My point had nothing to do with kefaya. You can think they're great or you can hate them, we can differ on what we think of them and it still doesn't make you a hypocrite. My main problem was your whole treaty argument, which you can be for or against and still not be a hypocrite. What does make you a hypocrite though is not giving the Egyptian public the right to be either for it or against it too. Claiming that they're only against it because they've never read it. Wow, are you implying that 70 million people, or how many is it now, would surely have the same opinion as your highness providing they just read the document you've kindly linked to in your post? That's of course presuming they hadn't read it and presuming they have no idea what this treaty entails. Basically what you're saying is if you're against this treaty or want it cancelled in the light of what happened in Lebanon it must be because you haven't read it!

And the shooting of soldiers on the border? Well "we do respond". What's the weather like in LaLa land?

And the sun comes out at night etc..etc...

Have a different opinion but allow others the same privilege and don't assume their ignorance. Mainly a complex argument about the treaty, which i'm not against by the way, cannot come down to 70 million people's ignorance. Suddenly you're getting "predictable" too. Which is strange.....

Still love your blog
Zahra

By Anonymous Anonymous, at August 30, 2006 5:58 PM  

tayeb...i m glad that you do love the blog....
listen, I think you got it wrong (or maybe i didnt expalin enough..i'm trying not to patronize aho...)
my point is that we can have this discussion, after we all read it..i.e. i dont think that everybody will have my opinion once we read it..but we ll have a more balanced discussion that is....maybe because i rushed and provided my opinion at the same time, u felt that I want ppl to read the treaty to agree with me...
sorry for the misunderstanding...
bas our desire to not be patronizing shouldnt make us afraid from declaring the fact that most of the ppl doesnt know the articles of the treaty in order to support/oppose it...
we're having some sort of a dialog of the mutes!!!


(3ala fekra this whole lala land thing is a bit intimidating bardo....bas i m cool with it :) )

By Blogger Tomanbay, at August 30, 2006 7:35 PM  

Hey, i've just read my last comment and it sounds too harsh, not at all how i meant it. I do have a tendency to be sarcastic though i've never managed to be intimidating before..

I guess what got to me is that, in light of recent events, you were criticizing calls for the cancellation of the treaty, which is fine so far but then you sounded like you were knowledgeable and everyone calling for it to be cancelled was unjustified and ignorant of its content. Then you appeared to get on your high horse and said no one read it and that it's a great treaty with no down sides and we respond to shootings etc etc, which to me sounded like you were passing your own opinions off as facts.

I guess i read into your post a little bit and rushed in and commented and indeed offended you with the whole hypocrite thing.

Usually whether i agree with your posts or not i never get offended, bel3aks and i certainly didn't mean to be intimidating by using the term lala land laken enta kaman kont very patronizing,still can't figure out if you're being sarcastic about "trying not to patronize" bas ma3lesh.

Zahra

By Anonymous Anonymous, at August 30, 2006 9:08 PM  

welcome back! great post, do write more often!

By Blogger Memz, at August 31, 2006 1:00 AM  

(still can't figure out if you're being sarcastic about "trying not to patronize" bas ma3lesh.)
Oh my God! :)

hehe...thanks for the conversation...really!

By Blogger Tomanbay, at August 31, 2006 3:08 PM  

tomanbay
I wouldve thought you have more brains than to support hizbulah, & kifaya are just another bunch of idiots who really know nothing & have too much time to waste.

By Blogger jokerman, at November 04, 2006 2:06 PM  

I do not support, but everyone has their own opinion ...)

By Anonymous Kira premium, at October 25, 2011 4:39 PM  

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