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Tuesday, March 07, 2006

Me And My Blogger Peeps

Moved on! Check TheCairoCalls

(I'm on an egomanical-titles roll today)
Listen, when I first started this blog, I didn't intend at all to start picking on people. That's the reason why I never chatted on-line, or posted to on-line forums before. It was like I-can-type-more-obscenities-faster-than-you kind of competition. Not really my cup of tea.
But, I find it really hard to keep my mouth shut.
So Sandmonkey, sorry but I had to do this.
Here goes.
Listen buddy, you seem like a nice guy (a bit hyperactive, but nice anyways), and I happen to share a lot of opinions with you. I even added you to my links (look to your right), so really nothing bad between us. I really share your hate for closed minded ideologists who refuse to open up to the world, and to communicate about their differences. I also share your resentment of people who decide to write-off people and ideas from the get-go without giving them the opportunity to explain themselves or to decipher their motives. I also find it really hard to sympathize with people who dismiss an entire country like the USA, when it is standing for the values of democracy and free trade. And, I couldn't agree on you more that we can't ask all people to be replicas of each others, but rather all we can hope for is for people to be civilized despite their differences.

Uh..wait a second...why am I sympathizing with you again?
(if you didn't get it, click on the links above to see how he didn't stand for the things he said he would stand for)

Look Sandmonkey, I believe that you stand for the things that you said you stand for. I can understand also the pressure of having to post 5000 times a day; there isn't really that many topics to speak about. But my problem is that you sometime send very mixed signals. For example I know that you're against the moronic opposition to the Dubai ports deal, but then you posted this, and I was like, what does this monkey mean? (no insult intended). But I tended to go over those things.
Until it was today. In two successive posts, you single-handedly diminished any suspicion I might had that you're actually a libertarian, as you claim you are. In the first one you tried to debase this singer guy (singer! rings any bells?), and kept second guessing him, because he sang a song about veiled girls. Big deal! I mean I might not approve of girls being forced to wear veils, but that doesn't mean that the guy is a fraud, or that he is a hypocrite, or that he is 'exploiting religion', and he most certainly didn't imply that "..Very bad western world. Very very bad!..". It just means that he doesn't agree with you on everything! So what?! You should be able to "tolerate" this, and actually praise the fact that he is taking a stand against Bin Laden (even if only verbally), something which we both know, isn't very popular with neo-muslims.
In the second post however, you topped yourself. You were very successful in emulating the thought process of radical, extremist, fanatical jihadiys, you're having issues with. These guys would have a sheikh come to them to tell them that a certain book is bad, and they shouldn't even read it, but rather avenge for their religion and kill the author. Well, you didn't exactly call for killing the director of the movie, (as I said, I believe you're good), but you, nevertheless, had the audacity to say that about a movie (any movie) :
even before seeing this movie, I declare that I stand against it and what it stands for, and I won't be hailing it in any way, even if it's good

Now, don't you agree with me that some Wahabi nutjob can say the same exact phrase about "The Passion of The Christ" for example?
Now if you intend to reply to that, please don't sound-bite me. I don't approve of suicide bombings under any circumstances. I even wrote about that earlier, and got some angry comments. But I don't approve of bank robberies either, but I like "Bonnie and Clyde", and as I said earlier, I really don't believe in Scorsese's interpretation of Christ's story, but I like the movie all the same.
Nobody who dismiss a song or a movie on face value can be called 'libertarian' in my book. No body!

The above piece was written in the best of intentions. Please read it carefully, or else you're going down SM. Not because of me, but because of your failure to uphold the principles which you claim to ascribe to.
But hey, they say that dissin' is the greatest form of admiration! Respect!

update: Sandmonkey just replied to the post here. Couldn't be classier. Thanks mate, seriously. And I'll have to agree that criticism is flattering, you lucky bastard. (And thanks for the link too...Mwah!)
Here is the real reply. Must read. (So you were trying to contradict yourself to fool idiots, like myself, into reacting in a way which will eventually shock westerners by contradicting their views of us! Brilliant! SM...Mwwwwwah!)
Read my analysis of this debate, here.

Moved on!

29 Comments:

In total agreement. You got me pegged Tomanbay. You got me pegged!

Hell, I think I will even give you a link, this way you won't have to leave your own in my comments section!

Thank you btw, me is flatterd!

By Blogger The Sandmonkey, at March 07, 2006 7:23 PM  

actually i didnt mean to comment to u to get llinked...i wanted u to read it! that's the whole point...and i couldn't contact u otherwise...
glad u r such a sport..thanks

By Blogger Tomanbay, at March 07, 2006 7:29 PM  

dude, i have my g-mail and my messenger e-mail up. You could've talked to me that way ya know?

By Blogger The Sandmonkey, at March 07, 2006 7:40 PM  

deleted the comment! no piggy backing intended!

By Blogger Tomanbay, at March 07, 2006 8:08 PM  

Thanks TomanBay for voicing my exact feelings about the SM, although you put it in a very gentle way, that I wouldn't be able to do, that's why I try to keep my mouth shut before I say things I might regret.
Indeed he's really talented and funny and intelligent, actually the first time I went to his blog he wrote about something I totally agreed with him on (it was rumors that Michael Jackson became a moslem) he did put in such a funny and rational way that I initially thought he's a reasonable guy, eventually ofcourse I started to realize what he stood for, still I read his blog everyday, and tried to post as much comments as I could and very naively arguing and debating with his predominantly nut job readers, one thing however made me really despise him (sorry SM, but that's what I seriously felt, because it was really dispicable), when he went on a hate rampage on this guy Raed Jarrar, I've never read anything this Jarrar guy wrote, but man this was textbook grandstanding, censorship, Mccarthyism and tyranny (and what's his motive for that? I have no idea), all the while he was stating time after time that he might be anything except being a hypocrite, reallY? Isn't this hypocricy, to be for absolute freedom of speech only when you like it, knowing, by the caliber of your readers that you might really get him in trouble, dude, live and let live.

By Anonymous Mohamed, at March 07, 2006 8:56 PM  

This is what the Middle East is missing: the ability to accept criticism, the concrete examples to support one's opinion, and finally the ability to be gracious.

bravo you two.

By Blogger egyptiansally, at March 07, 2006 9:12 PM  

Egyptiansally: we Middle Easterns who are incapable of accepting criticism are honoured that you found a rare opportunity as this discussion to give us your Egyptian-American blessings.

Tomanbay: Thank you for this post. It was right on! I can't believe SM had the audacity to attack Pradise Now without watching it and REFUSING the simple idea of humanising the suicide bomber. Suicide bombers are not animals they are, surprise, surprise, humans! Yes! You have no idea what it takes to be willing to end your life like that. Watch the movie and you'll know and its a far cry from the NDP luxury you were brought up in SM. (You're the one who brags about your NDP family. NDP!!! Can you believe that? OK will shut up.)

By Anonymous Sonia, at March 08, 2006 1:00 AM  

Sally: thnx for the comment. really appreciated. that's what I was trying to say all along; criticizing somebody doesn't mean trying to be enemies with him (or for that matter being a friend of his enemies--a commentator at Sandmonkey's called me a suicide bomber lover!!! sounds like a rock band dude!)

Sonia: the girl came in peace..and seriously, we need a lot more discussion and acceptance in the middle east. please don't refuse what is being said if u r suspicious of the sayer.
Can't say I'm not thankful for backing me though! appreciated;)

By Blogger Tomanbay, at March 08, 2006 2:02 AM  

Oh, don't be jealous Tomanbay. If you work real hard on your style for 25 years without breaks than your writings will be 0.5% as much fun to read as Monkey's.

However it is not your fault that the Monkey got brains and you can't figure out what he is talking about.

By Anonymous shlemazl, at March 08, 2006 2:52 AM  

ouch!!that hurts man...I've got feelings man...snif..snif!!

By Blogger Tomanbay, at March 08, 2006 3:09 AM  

This was very entertaining. I really enjoyed the give and take. I think this will give you both more readers. I know I've added both of you to my favorites. Keep it up.


stu

By Anonymous Anonymous, at March 08, 2006 8:02 AM  

SM ibn halal but somtimes misguided, I was the one who could set him straight:) feen ayam zaman lol pity I dont have the time to restart my blog, but I am contemplating it

By Anonymous Orientalism, at March 08, 2006 8:49 AM  

Ha. Sonia's reaction proved Sally's point.

I like this post and I like Sandmonkey. Does that make me a hypocrite? :)

By Anonymous Fuad, at March 08, 2006 9:20 AM  

Yeah Orientalism why did you stop? I had just started enjoying your blog last summer, then you went to Australia and stopped writing.

By Blogger Anna in Portland (was Cairo), at March 08, 2006 9:21 AM  

I would see Paradise Now if it truly exposed the nature of brainwashing. Does it do that? Or does it try to humanize a robot? I don't want to fund that Lie. I used to be a religious fundamentalist and eventually in my 20s, from outside help, I escaped. I was not human and neither were my peers. We were robots, although we seemed very human. Even to this day, I relish meeting these robots because there is a sort of innocence about them. But please don't call them human. When you talk to a fundamentalist, you are not talking to a human, you are talking to a dogma, in essence, someone who has given up the reins of their life. They know they have given up the reins. In fact, that is their greatest desire. They aren't ashamed of it. It is their ultimate worship to their god. And if they are not ashamed of being robots and desire to be less human, then neither should we be embarrassed to call them non-human. Then along trots Hollywood and attempts to relabel someone who doesn't want to be relabeled. Terrorist want to be labeled Terrorists, not humans. They despise being human. They have gotten to that point mostly because of the lies they have been feed. And I will also join SandMonkey in loathing the singer who claims that girls like sacks over their heads. If Yusuf really wanted to be a role model, he would have cut his balls off...that is the real issue. And Tomanbay, don't you understand that your intolerance of intolerance of intolerance has made you an apologist for intolerance?! I know that sounds ridiculous but replying to foolishness sometimes does that. SandMonkey is leveraging a very Libertarian ideal: Grass roots consumer advocacy. SandMonkey, please keep it up.

By Anonymous BoycottHollywood, at March 08, 2006 10:00 AM  

ppl ppl...my post has nothing to do with suicide bombers whatsoever (my opinion about them is mentioned in the post if you read carefully...and its far from apologitic)....

boycotthollywood: ur reply (yes...your reply) to sandmonkey can be found in the first few lines of your comment: "I used to be a religious fundamentalist and eventually in my 20s, from outside help, I escaped"...so, you know, there is hope for ppl who you see now as robots...real humans dont give up on other humans...because think about it, ppl could have given up on u when you were the sort of robot you described.
And hey, I'd be all for consumer advocacy, if the man know what he is advising against; he didn't even see the movie for god's sake!! Films are tricky, and as somebody commented earlier, a film like 'Munich' can be viewed as anti-israeli, or anti-palestinian, that's the whole reason y YOU have to decide for urself what's the point a movie is really trying to make (assuming, that it is only one point..but thats another story)

fuad: no, that doesn't make u a hypocrite! it makes you a civilized person who can see merits in two opposing points of view, without forming grand conclusions, and stereotypes about the people who have these povs

By Blogger Tomanbay, at March 08, 2006 10:15 AM  

Man, are you guys living out your ideology and politics in cyberspace only? Seems you spend more time in virtual reality, than facing the fascism in the streets (not that I dont find your writings importent... I find them very importent!!!)
But you could do SO MUCH MORE if you stood up to the backwardedness that you all hate so much, together, and took to the streets, the universities, the schools, the markets, the televisions, the newspapers, the radio, grafiti - it could be the new '68 of the arab world: the young marching the streets... If you stood together, all your acquired fame in the world, would make you untouchable! And if some craced religious islamist would raise their fists, I would grab my banner and come stand by you! As would hundreds and thousands form my part of the world, who supports your quest! Lets start a revolution - a peacefull one!

Sincerely
A dane

By Anonymous Anonymous, at March 08, 2006 11:40 AM  

Hey danish dude, it's not as bad down here as u think. we are not just backwardness and fascism, there is a lot of good guys on the streets as well, not only on the net & the last thing anybody needs is help from ur part of the world. for a change to take place, count and hold out it needs to be a 100% local solution. so thanks, but no thanks.

By Anonymous Hani, at March 08, 2006 12:26 PM  

Come on guys, why are we changing subjects here, please stick to the point of bashing the SM, it was much more fun, it seems that it really did hit home that he posted a super sized manifesto (no way I'll read all of it) defending himself, (sorry SM :P , but the whole idea is really tempting, don't feel bad I'll follow TB's reccomedation of the bugs bunny way and give you a kiss at the end, and also I happen to agree with you on the Samy Yusef guy, nothing's more cheesy). But seriously man, NDP? Is Sonia right?
Hany, is that my buddy Hany?

By Anonymous Mohamed, at March 08, 2006 8:11 PM  

Mo, it's ok. I know you are not much of a reader anyway!

By Blogger The Sandmonkey, at March 08, 2006 9:09 PM  

Ouch SM, I'm hurt, just because I'm attacking you and ripping you apart doesn't mean that you have
to attack back. And actually even
if I was much of a reader I still wouldn't have the patience to read the whole thing, it's too damn long man.
One thing I'm sure of though ( and I think that deep inside you know it too, but would never admit it :)), is that non of your Nazi cheerleaders who posted their comments encouraging you to keep up the
"good"
work did read it too, they're just blindly following you just as long as you completely adopt their nutty viewpoint.

By Anonymous Mohamed, at March 08, 2006 10:21 PM  

Ok, I read the whole thing, still, the greatest flaw in your argument is your claim that
by becoming a secular extremist you'll counterbalance the religious extremists, no buddy,
that won't happen, and
you know it, what you'll do is exacerbate the matter by alienating
those who despise the
moslem brotherhood while equally
disagreeing with you ( I wont
say despise this time) because, honestly, they won't believe you're sincere, you can't gain credibility among them if you're 99% of the time adopting the views of Daniel Pipes and Ibn Warraq (who I don't think is a real person
by the way
and that he's just a pseudonym for Pipes or a similar nut).
So the best thing you could hope achieving is absolutely nothing in Egypt, and praise and admiration by the likes of Pipes and Maulkin as long as you're behaving yourself and acting within the line of the good polite self hating house slave, maybe then you'll even
get invited to Charlie Rose to fill in for that other piece of work called Fouad Ajamy.
And regarding the martyr tone of abdicating all the nice things in life because you're a man on a mission, well let me tell you
something dear
I read farag fouda and I adored farag fouda and my heart was broken when he was shot, and believe me, you're no Farag Fouda.
I hope I didn't offend you in anyway.

By Anonymous Mohamed, at March 08, 2006 11:16 PM  

Guys, this is really viscious, unprovoked.

By Blogger Seneferu, at March 09, 2006 1:51 AM  

yes it's me. u know i'm wrapping things up at work moving to the new/ old job, so i've got plenty of time for the sandmonkey thing.

it sure is great to rip the poor bastard apart.. he's got feelings... AND he's doing IT for egypt and the 70 million ungratefull dead bastards. My heart is broken. if that was not tragycomedy then...
i discovered SM accidentally one month ago and thought he was funny, but he actually managed to alienate me.. the handsome(no kidding), beer loving, girl magnet (ok, partially true), anti religious extremism (muslim and non muslim) guy. Anyway most of the totally egypt/middle east- ignorant nutjobs commenting his long post know nothing about how he really is repelling the average secular egyptian. the best thing that came out from discovering the monkey guy was the links to tomanbay and the big pharaoh. so keep up the good work guys. BUT, still i don't think the monkey is that bad. he does sometimes have great points and put them in hilarious witty ways. sometimes he is as he himself once put it mostafez and may i add safel which is still ok most of the time. but the thing with raed jerrar was just too much. freedom of speech and of critcizing everything has nothing to do with where u live. and hating the imperialistic politics of one country (which believe or not sandmonkey doesn't give a fucking shit about our magnificent om el donia) doesn't necessarily mean that u hate the society u're living in (in raed's case usa) i know what i'm talking about. when an egyptian here (i don't live in egypt) start cursing this society i'm living in (now mine), i ask the bastard to move back to egypt if he's not content.
But it's a great difference if he starts cursing the country's politics, then i would ask him to say it louder preferebly in a newspaper.
sorry double morals is just too bad for ur cause sandmonkey (if u really do have one as u say), but if it pleases ur anti jihadis jihadeees so cheers man.
i realize i've used up the word bastard and that i drifted and talked a lot about raed jerrar's episode, but it really pissed me off. it's late and i should go to bed, alone as u've guessed otherwise i wouldn't have spent so much of my precious time with u guys. Mohamed: may god have mercy on Farag Fouda's soul, he was a great guy, not yet replaced. By the way i don't know what happened to Ibrahim Issa. i think he's now a bit religious left or did i miss on something. in his book ezhab ila fer3on he hails el karadawi sheikh thing as a great scholar??

good night and good luck tomanbay.. and mohamed, ok and the other guys too.

and poor little hurt monkey i'll still read for u anyway.

By Anonymous Hani, at March 09, 2006 2:32 AM  

Hi Hani, in addition to TomanBay, try Ursula Lindsey (she's an american living in cairo, she's quiet brilliant here's the link: http://www.popmatters.com/columns/lindsey/060228.shtml
also read anna in cairo, she wrote a great article about Chomsky,
also goto Highlander www.lonehighlander.blogspot.com
You couldn't be more right about Farag Fouda my friend, I remember when he was killed,it was the only time in my life I heard my dad curse and the only time he had something good to say about Nasser, he said exactly "el balad el wes'7a dee mayenfa3hash '3are wa7ed ebn kalb zay 3abdel Nasser" ,did you notice how the SM tries to mix and blend Farag Fouda with total idiots like Irshad Monji (who absolutely knows nothing about what she's talking about).
I wouldn't have told him that I'd still read his blog though, if I were you I'd just go there and read it any way and pretend enak me'7asmoh el we7esh.

By Anonymous Mohamed, at March 09, 2006 4:46 AM  

Hold everything! Let's not create another flame war where there shouldn't be one! We loves both you guys. Seriously. Everybody take a breath and go to http://www.cuteoverload.com and follow the link to behold the wonder of the Coveted Cuteness Trifecta made flesh in the Akagami Hamster. They say they can acheive world peace with that image, and all us Blog commentators would do well to look at that image before we post anything.

-Troy Z

By Anonymous Anonymous, at March 09, 2006 5:10 AM  

CanadianPharaoh is another great blogger.

Check him out

http://canadianpharaoh.blogspirit.com/

By Anonymous Anonymous, at March 11, 2006 1:57 AM  

Instead of continuing to argue the issues which you happen to disagree on, you've turned this into a battle of personal attacks:

"please stick to the point of bashing the SM, it was much more fun"

"Ouch SM, I'm hurt, just because I'm attacking you and ripping you apart doesn't mean that you have
to attack back."

"and poor little hurt monkey i'll still read for u anyway."

Good job douchebags, way to excersize the ability of open dialogue and debate.

By Anonymous Anonymous, at March 14, 2006 3:53 PM  

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By Anonymous Anonymous, at October 05, 2006 5:13 AM  

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